I ran a little experiment last night using the rules on granting Experience Points (XP) in the Dungeon Master's Guide and dungeon module T1: The Village of Hommlet. If you have NEVER played this module before, please stop reading now....
...and now that those 3 people have left, let's continue.
Assumptions: A party of 6 player characters enters the village looking for adventure, consisting of 3 fighters, a cleric, a magic-user, and a thief. They take on Elmo (4th level ranger) immediately and settle on Spugnoir (2nd level magic-user) for additional magic, each for a full share of XP and treasure since they aren't henchmen. All player characters are 1st level when they arrive at the moathouse, low on funds and equipped poorly (as suggested in the module).
The PCs approach the moathouse and engage the giant frogs who leap from the water, gaining surprise. They defeat the monsters but lose one of the fighters in combat (using death at 0 hp). Using the threat comparison in the DMG, there are a total of 4 frogs with 1 HD and 2 frogs with 2 HD. Each has two special abilities (leaping and tongue attack) which bumps them up an additional 2 HD each. For purposes of HD/Levels comparison, they have a total of 16 total levels. The party has a total of 12 levels (6 1st level PCs, Elmo level 4, Spugnoir Level 2). The ratio is 16/12 so the party receives full XP for both monsters and treasure (which they did not find).
The next encounter is with the huge spider in the tower. This is a deadly encounter since the spider can surprise 5 in 6 (or 4 in 6 with the ranger present). The spider also has poison. This means it's HD are boosted by 3 (2+2 HD, + 2 special abilities) to 5 HD. The ratio is 5/11 which is close enough to 1/2 for my purposes. So the party will receive only half the normal XP for the spider and its treasure (in plain sight) which totals to 50 gp, 38 sp, and 71 cp. Assume that they lost another character to poison before the spider could be killed.
The next encounter is with the brigands hiding in the master's chamber. These brigands will undoubtedly gain surprise on the party and have missile weapons at the ready. Whoever opens that door and enters is pretty much dead. There are 8 normal men and one 2nd level fighter. The normal men will count as 1 HD + 1 HD for missile fire capability, the fighter counts as a 2 HD creature + 1 HD for higher than normal (d10) hit points. This totals to 19 total HD for the encounter. The ratio is 19/10 so full XP is granted for the monsters and treasure. During the fighting another 2 characters lose their lives (one of which is Spugnoir).
At this point the party has to retreat from the moathouse since they are likely out of spells and expendables and low on hit points.
This run is very typical of how parties play through this module. It is brutal and the encounters, although they seem balanced, are not really worth the risk. The deadly individual monsters net much fewer XP than the large mobs of smaller creatures due to HD calculations by-the-book (BtB). Even if one ignores the rules as written (RAW) and goes with full XP awards for each encounter, the total XP is not enough to get a large party to 2nd level before they descend into the dungeon. The monsters there are more challenging and far greater in number. A party with "legally" rolled hp cannot survive the final encounter unless they bolster their numbers with henchmen. Such a move further decreases the amount of XP available to the party. Hiring on Elmo may be counterproductive for a party since they are more likely to gain MORE XP without him, but less likely to survive to gain the experience. This leaves one or two survivors to reap the rewards.
If , however, the XP threat level is based off AVERAGE HD/Levels, then that is different. In the above example, the party average starts at 1.5 Levels. The HD average for the frogs is 2.66, for the spider is 5, and for the brigands is 2.11, all of which are greater than the party average. Therefore all the characters would receive full XP. I will have to re-read the section because I know somewhere the word "AVERAGE" was bandied about....
Still, it would take an average sized party of about 8 members (including henchmen) days of adventuring to get through T1, with lots of rest periods in between. There would also be several casualties since the damage potential of most of the monsters is abnormally high! The ogre in the dungeon level alone could spell doom for the party, and they pretty much have to go through him to get to the rest of the dungeon unless they find the unlikely-located pillar secret door in the tomb, and all this after fighting off a dozen nasty zombies with super-powers. It seems that Elmo is necessary to babysit the fledgling characters throughout the entire moathouse. His 41 hp pool is crucial to surviving against the nastier encounters in the dungeon, but I know that I would gripe about allowing such a potent fighter into the party - seems more deus ex machina than usual D&D, even for Gygax. After the first two times of Elmo swooping in to handle the big bad evil monster, the characters would get lazy and let him handle everything, practically putting a big "S" on his cloak.
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D&D Basic: Entering Hommlet
Well, it has been a while since I've published anything on this blog. To be honest, I've been dabbling in D&D 5e and trying to...
Its kind of hard to imagine that there are no comments in all of your blog. Such a vaunted source if information, perspective, and experience is extremely valuable to people like me who started somewhere between 1st and 2nd ED AD&D. It is articles like this that are incredibly valuable to me as a DM because in this case, I get to see the 'average' outcome of this module. I get that there is some variance to the 'flavor' that modules are written with depending on the author but I have no experience with modules writ large; our games almost always made our own way in whatever world we were playing in. Er go - I would have felt like I did something wrong, or that the module was crap, if my entire party got slaughtered in a setup like the one described above. That's not what anyone that sits down to play is there for. And it wouldn't have occurred to me to have such powerful characters hired in with my PC's because I too would have felt it was severely unbalancing. Ironically, there are passages -specifically- penned in the 2nd Edition DMG that advise against particularly powerful NPC's sweeping in to save the PC's bacon, creating a 'cooler than you' sort of feel to them. Things like that kill the players ownership in getting themselves out of their own problems, promotes laziness, and overall sells pivotal encounters far short of their dramatic intent.
ReplyDeleteConsequently I am planning on running T1-4 so understanding the mean outcome for a starting party of recommended levels is gold in my particular case. My playing group rarely gets to more than 4 so starting my PC's off at 'level 1 or 2' is just not a viable option if I don't want to push people through making a new character mid-stream. Don't get me wrong, I am all about game balance through lethality. I want my PC's to feel, and be, threatened by some pretty nasty challenges. I also believe stupidity should be painful. But when things aren't hard because they're hard - they're hard because they're untenable, it's an avoidable difference that will leave a rotten taste in peoples' mouths. Even if you point out all the things they could have done to be more successful - the realization that they would have had to do *every one of those things just right* and still survival was almost completely luck-based...you're probably losing players to the Playstation or Xbox in the front room.
I have stuck with AD&D in the face of 3.0, 3.5, 4th Edition, and now 5th Edition, and will continue to stick by it. Maybe I'm just not 'old school enough' to enjoy this kind of lopsided, disadvantaged, rail-road into the mouth of peril for my PC's, but it isn't fun killing people's characters off that really want to roleplay over an evening and tell an epic story by taking part in it. Character death should happen, but it should also be appropriately dramatic when it does happen. It should happen when people get careless and stupid, and it should happen when a player is playing their character to a fault, standing on the bare bedrock of principles of honor and chivalry and swearing themselves to certain death because their duty demands it. And sometimes, it should happen when it is unexpected, when the dramatic tension is low (or lower...not at an ultimate showdown), and when the dice just decide it's time. But it shouldn't be happening because people are so grossly, intentionally outclassed, it is a literal lottery to see who makes it out alive. Its funny, though - the same people bitching about pure 'Gygaxianism' are generally the same people that hem and haw about 'being by the book,' and I hold a lot of reverence for the latter. But these same people will tell you that folks that want high ability scores are somehow not worthy of playing OD&D or Basic D&D...when encounters like this practically demand players to have those super high ability scores out of the gate just to cut the mustard of survival.
As for me and mine, I'm still going to be running T1-4 but with characters of 2nd and 3rd level. I'm dreaming up a much better backstory than the empty gasp given to everyone at the beginning that will fit the acceleration in levels I've proposed.
DeleteSomething to the effect of the small group of 3 to 4 was approached by a secret agent of Furyondy or the Archclericy for a tempting chance to court danger and reward in the sacrifice of keeping the lands safe from an old, looming darkness. Maybe even a 'Dirty Dozen' type of beginning where the PC's start in prison awaiting judgement (cutting off a hand for thievery, enslavement for not paying taxes, all the fun stuff). They get put through a gauntlet and only the worthy ones come out on top and are able to be given the opportunity to serve their 'sentence' in this unique way that might be a boon to some; a chance at martial training and basic skills in espionage/ counter-espionage where before they were a soul bereft of coin, friends, and opportunity.
Either way they'd be given a tailored brief - something that grabs their attention and presents a nonspecific but compelling reason for them to act. Perhpas they aren't given the whole truth, but the parts that they have to know in order to achieve either kingdom's objectives. The PC's would then be yet another secret group entering the small town of Hommlet to keep tabs on what is going on, report on the unusual, and ultimately seek to identify any Temple forces in the area and destroy them if possible. They would be stressed to keep their purpose and goals secret, and their lack of provisions and flashy magic would be a tactical, necessary choice. If there ARE Temple agents operating, they would surely notice a well armed, well coordinated small group moving in and asking questions. Getting coded messages to their handler would be another interesting element to insert into the mix, as well as recruiting people on the sly to see how they keep their orders secret, but still motivate the locals or travelers to help them. This way the PC's enter Hommlet with a purpose and an expectation to guide their efforts, even if it is a grudging one. For added leverage the handler could let them know that should they fail, he would simply alert the militiamen and have them seized as the criminals they may be (or may be framed as). Either way it starts things off with a simple but grand touch - hinting at a sleeping evil that many have forgotten about, save for a few secret orders that feel this old, restless evil on the move once more.
Thanks for the kind words. I've been blogging about AD&D for a while, mainly as a sort of and online diary and venting platform. I try to put out sagely wisdom; most of the time, though, it comes off as snarky ranting. My hope is that anyone reading this can make their gaming experience better through comparing the play styles and combat examples provided. Good ideas on Hommlet, there, Worst Cat. I hope you have as much fun running your game as I did!
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