While learning AD&D at the tender age of 13, we made a lot of bad assumptions about the game and how the dice worked. Probability was new at the time and the elegance that Gygax used in creating a fast-paced and exciting game sometimes went over our heads. Surprise was one of those things. In retrospect, the concepts are not that hard to understand, just not explained as elegantly as the mechanic itself.
The Dungeon Master's Guide I feel makes a number of assumptions: 1) you've played wargames in the past; 2) specifically you've played original D&D with the Chainmail rules; 3) you've used the alternate rules in the Greyhawk Supplement before; and 4) you understand the convention of dice and probability as relates to most situations. Having never played miniature battles in my life, the conventions explained in the AD&D DMG were mysterious at times and assumptions made matter-of-factly made little or no sense to me. To make matters worse, the editing errors added another bit of confusion into the mix (the surprise segment table in the PHB or DMG is in error on one of the lines). My first gaming experience using surprise was non-standard at best (vs. drow in the underdark) so it's no wonder we got it all wrong.
The most important decision about surprise is if it exists. Obviously the chance for surprise is going to almost universally apply to the player characters since they are the invaders into the realm of the unknown. Creatures in the dungeon will almost never require light sources, are aware of the noises usual to their environment, and some can even sense intruders mentally or through special abilities. Magical wards being tripped , traps being set off, doors being broken down, etc. all lead to 0% chance for surprise for the monsters. On the off chance that the characters are able to mask their presence somehow (invisibility, all using infravision to see, demi-humans or thieves sneaking about, etc.), then the monsters MAY be surprised. Planned ambushes are another problem, however. A wandering monster is typically the only instance of surprise most commonly occurring in a play session. So step 1 is determining who is aware and who can be surprised. As stated, surprise is usually unilateral and almost always against the players.
Step 2 is rolling to see if surprise occurs. In essence, the elegance of the roll is that 1d6 is used for both the chance to be surprised AND the number of segments of surprise. It's my belief that this is only stated for STANDARD 2 in 6 surprise; non-standard surprise where the surprise is given as a percentage or on a different die type needs to be handled by the DM. It is my belief that there should never be more than 2 segments of surprise [EDITED], as supported by the existence of "complete surprise" (see later article on surprise segments). In any case, only roll for the party that can be surprised, modifying the roll based on whether the monsters or players have a better or worse chance of surprising. For example, a ranger is only surprise 1 in 6. A bugbear can surprise 3 in 6. Assuming that only the ranger can be surprised, the bugbear has 1 in 6 chance better than normal so the ranger is surprised 2 in 6.
Step 3 is determining how long surprise lasts. If normal 2 in 6 chance for surprise exists, simply use the die roll to determine the number of segments. If a 1 is rolled, the surprise lasts 1 segment. If a 2 is rolled the surprise lasts for 2 segments. During a surprise segment, a character or monster is allowed its normal number of attacks, missile fire at 3x rate (not used by this DM), and can cast fast spells requiring 1 or 2 segments as required. Activation of magic items requiring 1 or 2 segments may also be used. The side that is surprised cannot perform any actions so long as they are surprised. Dexterity reaction adjustments reduce or increase surprise for the individual only. If a person has a +1 reaction adj. and his party is surprised for 1 segment, then he is not surprised and rolls for initiative as usual. A person with a -1 reaction adj. would be surprised for 2 segments; note that a penalty can never create surprise, it only modifies existing surprise.
Now, the controversy has to do with the terms surprise and complete surprise. These terms were used in the DMG with no explanation given. It has always meant to me that surprise is 1 segment and complete surprise was 2 segments. But nothing in the books supported this definition....until I re-read module G3. In the adventure there are some wererats on the 2nd level that are stated as always attacking with surprise (6 in 6), then gives a range of segments based on a die roll (1-3 = surprise, 4-6 = complete surprise). Now, according to the examples given, normally that would indicate 6 segments of surprise since 100% surprise is the same as reading 6 on a d6. However, there are a lot of creatures in the G-D-Q series with better than normal chances of surprise and a reduced chance of being surprised. How many segments should they get? The answer is to use the convention written into G3. Assuming the roll of an additional d6 with each surprise check, one die would represent the chance for surprise, and the second would indicate the number of segments of surprise (1 or 2). This could apply to ALL surprise checks, including monks percentile chance and odd monsters with increased or decreased chances of surprise. It all makes sense.
For another example, refer to the module T1, a very low level module that is meant as an introduction to AD&D. Most of the monsters in the moathouse have an increased chance of surprise and almost no chance of being surprised. In particular, the spider in the tower has a 5 in 6 chance of surprise. Should that mean that the spider gets 5 attacks on a hapless victim if the party rolls a 5? I think not. No more than 1 or 2 segments of surprise should exist, modified by Dexterity for the individual. After all, a spider attacking a 1st level character would have a good chance of killing them in the 1st encounter - not a good way to introduce AD&D to a neophyte!
So, the concepts are not that difficult to understand once you know where it all comes from. Better examples and clarified steps would have helped immensely. I'm so glad that I now have a handle on this concept and feel confident to house rule it when necessary.
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Actually a Dex of 3 would add 3 segments
ReplyDeleteYou are correct - and an 18 Dex would reduce by 3 segments. However, I disagree with using any more than 2 segments of surprise in any combat, as the rest of my post indicates. Like many other tacked-on rules in the DMG, this one seems to make no sense as written (especially with the 3x fire rate for missile weapons!) and is excessively deadly to the players who, as stated, are "usually" the only ones affected by surprise.
DeleteI Googled to tackle this issue again, found this blog & slowly realized I'd forgotten I asked the Q on here last year! But like I predicted, I have more.
DeleteCan you clarify the pg 61 DMG 'Surprise Dice Difference" chart? Never quite got that chart.
What if the party rolls a 6 & the monster rolls a 1? The difference is 5, right?
What am I getting wrong?
I don't see how the pg 61 table translates in my ex. (Party 6 vs Monster 1) That's 5 ... Where exactly is that on the table? I get that the monster would be caught off guard & vulnerable for a good 5 segments, but why am I not seeing that on the table? Only 5 I see is the one in parenthesis. "(5-2)".
I Googled around & found this. Read the 3rd paragraph down re: surprise rolls. Says NOT to subtract the different sides' dice from each other. Which is exactly what I was doing in my ex. & saw you do in yours. SO confused!
http://nagorascorner.blogspot.com/2012/05/ad-initiative-surprise.html
I need this part explained like I'm six. lol Thx again.
This is still making my head explode! The "Surprise difference" table on pg 61 in the DMG totally confuses me.
ReplyDeleteAll that aside, I totally get the pg 62 page. Easy.
So, let me know if this is right:
A) Party rolls a 4, Monster rolls a 3= NO one is surprised. Everyone does Initiative.
B) Party with Ranger vs Monster: Party rolls 4, Monster a 1= monster is surprised for 1 segment & so is the Ranger? For how many segments?
I'll undoubtedly have more Qs. Thx!
Actually the DMG pg. 62 chart has an error. If you switch the "Surprise Effect" for the last two entries, then it is correct. You can see a different, correct example on pg. 103 of the PHB. Remember the die roll doubles not only as the chance for surprise, but also the number of segments of surprise. In your examples above, A) is correct (assuming 2 in 6 standard surprise for both sides), but in B) the result is that the monster is surprised for 1 segment. Since the ranger's party is only surprised on a 1 in 6 due to his presence, they can only be surprised if they roll a 1 (and thus usually not surprised for more than 1 segment). A ranger alone or ahead of a group can surprise opponents 3 in 6, but while he is in a group of armored associates, his chance to surprise is only the standard 2 in 6. Thus, since the monster above rolled a 1, the monster is only surprised for 1 segment. The chart on pg. 61 of the DMG is only to determine how many segments of surprise apply to the MORE surprised party if BOTH are surprised. For instance, if the monster in the examples above rolled a 2 and the party rolled a 1, the monster would be surprised for 1 segment (since 2-1 = 1) and the party would not be considered surprised. In effect they were BOTH surprised for 1 segment, then the party recovered first while the monster was still surprised for an additional segment. That little chart has no other use and only tends to confuse the situation. Hope that helps.
DeleteFor your reference, Complete Surprise:
ReplyDelete"Complete Surprise" is defined as 2 (or more) segments of surprise [c.f. , MM-Catoblepas, DMG-Crossbow of Speed, PHB-Phantasmal Killer, UA-garrote, MM2-Dracolisk, G1-3, p.12 & p. 23, and the potential 4 segments of surprise for the Aerial Servant (PHB/MM). The Boalisk prompts "Complete Surprise" on a 1-2; whether the Boalisk rolls a 1 or 2, it will surprise for 2 segments.
There's good support for there only being two states of Surprise: Surprise, and Complete Surprise. So you're in good company.
There an extension of what you state here: "A person with a -1 reaction adj. would be surprised for 2 segments; note that a penalty can never create surprise, it only modifies existing surprise."
If the modifier can't create surprise, by extension it also can't remove it. A lightly-encumbered fighter with an 18 dex, with a party roll of 3 for surprise, still can't react for the duration of Surprise. They just can't be individually attacked.