Dungeons & Dragons Through the Versions - Part 20 (Final)

Well, it's been a little over a year and a half since our regular campaign went on hiatus and we began a great experiment to see which version of the D&D game best fits our concept of the campaign we would like to play. Although the conditions of the experiment kept changing (different campaign worlds, different character classes and races, and differing numbers of players), I think we were able to come to a definite conclusion about a few things. Each system will be rated on the scale of: VERY FUN, FUN, INDIFFERENT, NOT FUN, NO FUN AT ALL.

BASIC D&D: This was our first attempt at something outside of the players' comfort zone. I think it went well, and the players all had a great time. We used the upper levels of the moathouse from T1 as the adventure for this version of the game. The combats went rather smoothly, even though I took extra time to explain everything that happened each round. The combat system was streamlined and easy to work with. The lack of rules is actually a benefit since the players are less concerned with specifics and able to enjoy themselves more. Character creation took a little over an hour, and most of that was me explaining the differences between this and AD&D, the players making gear selections, and coming up with names. The rulebook is well-organized and we were able to find most rules without much problem. My biggest problem was getting them to think in simpler terms with fewer options.
RATING = FUN

ADVANCED D&D DOGMA: This version took us back to AD&D, but using all the rules strictly as written, inconsistencies and all. We used the lower level of the moathouse for this version with different characters (all given enough XP to make a fighter 2nd midway to 3rd level). We found that multi-classed characters suffer from a lack of power that is disturbing at the lowest levels. Mortality rates are high, but the action is very exciting. Keeping track of large combats can be a bit of a chore, but the work is well worth it. I think this version was the most fun...and also the most disheartening. We spent a long time getting all the details of the characters right (a full 5 hour session to make sure 3 players had all their characters complete), but then spent a long time in town interacting with the populace. This, to me, is the essence of why T1 is such a great module. It gives the players a base home in which to invest their time and interest. If the DM makes the NPCs memorable and worth interacting with, then the whole thing comes alive. The party died once in the beginning to the zombies; we rebooted and continued since the cleric was unaware of how turning worked in this version of the game. They did very well until the final encounter, which I think is way too hard for a party of 1st level characters. The rulebooks are the biggest problem for this version of the game. The rules are spread out between three books (or more!) and rules were constantly being added in modules and supplements over the life of this version. We restricted our run to the core three books (PHB, DMG, and MM) and had trouble locating some specific rules during play.
RATING = FUN

2nd EDITION AD&D: I used the Forgotten Realms as the setting for this adventure, and used the adventure the Haunted Halls of Eveningstar. In retrospect, I think that this was a bad move. I should have stuck with Greyhawk and used the Temple of Elemental Evil for 3rd level characters or higher instead of breaking the groove we had. We also should have tried keeping the same characters, but since those died in the last encounter, I felt a change was in order (plus half-orcs don't exist in 2nd edition as PCs). The party made more characters than usual, two players running 2 characters each, so we had 5 PCs this time. The module was not very well written or presented, and it seemed that the tricks and traps were deadlier than a 1st level dungeon should have had. The players were frustrated by choke points that prevented their advancement into the dungeon. They had spent one full session (plus a little more) to complete their characters. They were not impressed with non-weapon proficiencies. The strange thing is that I had run these players in 2nd edition before, but they had no memory of it. In the end, the players aborted the adventure because they just weren't getting anywhere. I don't think this version got a fair shake. The rulebooks were a bit better organized than 1st edition, but the rules were written almost verbatim from 1E, inconsistencies and all, with little or no editing!
RATING = NO FUN

3rd EDITION D&D: I decided that pre-made modules would not work with this group so I made up a quick scenario to see how this version of the game worked with my own homebrew campaign of Sturmgard. The character creation took about 1 full session because only some of the players had already played this version of the game. All the fiddly math was a bit much for one of the players. We played this version only a few sessions because I wanted to move quickly through the versions. The players tend to drag their feet even when I explain that we're not making these characters to keep forever. The scenario was a bit hard but rewarding. The characters survived, although they did take their lumps. I think this version played well, but I would have preferred a more neutral GREYHAWK type adventure. Players enjoyed the new character classes and how much more they could do even as 1st level characters. The rulebooks, although well organized, were quite dense and hard to locate specific information. The rules are so integrated that changing one stat affects a host of other stats. Creating encounters is a CHORE for DMs - one that I was not happy to re-experience.
RATING = FUN

4th EDITION D&D: I had a hard time explaining the rules on this one. The game is so different from anything resembling D&D that it was really hard to explain how it all related. The character choices were not based on intelligent decisions, but rather on following a template blindly. The character types selected were probably not optimal for the adventure and they were only a party of 3 characters, instead of the recommended 5. That was my fault, as I ran the adventure, Keep on the Shadowfell, straight from the book, without regard for the shortage of players. If we had the full complement of players, this could have actually worked better. As it was, we ran the first encounter twice, then, by the final encounter with kobolds the players had had enough! They kept dying to creatures who could stymie their powers easily. I think the players just felt embarrassed being beaten up by kobolds.... We aborted under player request and never got past the second encounter! The rulebooks were organized strangely, and I found myself constantly flipping back and forth. The plethora of powers, each with a few paragraphs of important data, would get to be a nightmare at higher levels.
RATING = NO FUN AT ALL

PATHFINDER: Although technically not D&D, it was a direction that D&D 3.5 went after the great diaspora of D&D fans. This time we had 5 players and a full complement of character types. I ran the old module Citadel by the Sea by Sid Fisher from DRAGON Magazine #78(?). The concept was sound and showcased all the things I wanted to highlight in the system. The players enjoyed role-playing their wacky characters and had a blast running the combats. I got more positive feedback on this adventure than any others we ran. The system had some very good points and ran well out of one rulebook. Characters were strong, even at 1st level, and had access to many powers that they could use continually. Level advancement was graded so one could run on a fast track, a normal level of xp, or a slow track. Many of the rules were optional. I have to say that this was one of my favorites to run, but took a lot of behind the scenes work to stat out all the monsters (most of whom were classed). This is one of the downfalls of the 3.5 or Pathfinder systems - DM burnout! The rulebooks are the best organized that I think I've ever seen. I knew just were to go to find each and every rule I needed, and as I said, the rules were mostly in the Core Rulebook.
RATING = VERY FUN

5th EDITION D&D: I did not run this adventure, it was run by one of the other players. She had experience in the 5th edition system as both player and DM, so I jumped at the opportunity to play. I found the character creation took a long time, seeing as the players had more decisions to make and additional role-playing options to incorporate. The system seems fairly robust and easy to run, but there seemed to be something lacking to me. The scenario we ran was not usual D&D, but a Ravenloft horror scenario. Therefore we were isolated and experiencing opponents that were dumbed down for our level. The XP system seemed a bit arbitrary - I never really looked at it myself, but it seemed that XP levels were assigned rather than actual points tallied for what we accomplished. Also, the creatures for the scenario were way out of our league! I suppose that highlights 5th edition's ability to use monsters of any level in any scenario? The at-will spells were very helpful to the party, but I can see this being a problem when used against the party. Despite all these boosts to the characters, we still managed to lose one character to the final encounter with a critical hit one-shot death. Talk about brutal! I didn't see anyone clamoring to continue running this scenario. The books had minimal information on some things (like skills) and too much information on others (backgrounds and other RP bits) for our tastes. Also, the digital versions were very hard to read due to the fonts and colors used. Rulebooks should be legible, not artistic expressions that conceal text and blur page numbers!
RATING = INDIFFERENT

I had planned to try two other clones - Basic Fantasy RPG and Castles & Crusades, but the players decided that they had had enough. We all just wanted to return to our characters stuck in the middle of G2 for the past year and a half!

The whole point of this experiment was to do what 5th edition should have done - take the best pieces of each system and stitch them into a coherent campaign setting and rule set. I like to think of it as Flesh Golem D&D (or FrankenD&D). We found nothing of use in 4th edition. 2nd edition was similarly useless as little more than a re-write of the 1st edition rules. 5th edition had its strengths, but those were mostly related to what I house-ruled in my own campaign already. Basic, 3rd edition, and dogma 1st edition rules were the most fun, even though the players found some bits useless or restricting. Everyone agreed that Pathfinder was by far the superior system. We had the most fun with this system.

So, to recap:
✰✰✰✰✰ PATHFINDER
   ✰✰✰✰ BASIC D&D, AD&D DOGMA, 3RD EDITION D&D
      ✰✰✰ 5TH EDITION D&D
         ✰✰ 2ND EDITION AD&D
            ✰ 4TH EDITION D&D

It is important to note that the players have taken to calling 4th edition "The Edition That Shall Not Be Named!" Whenever it comes up in conversation, they all groan and shake their heads. It had that much of an effect!

In the end, the players decided that our house-ruled AD&D 1st edition campaign is the system that best fits their needs for their current characters. Perhaps, if this campaign ever ends, we will create characters to adventure in Pathfinder, but I don't see this ending any time soon. It would have been better I think to have played through the versions as they came out, giving us longer time to experience the flaws and merits of each. No system is perfect, even Pathfinder (with its lack of carrying capacities for containers), and in the end it comes down to the preferences of the players and the DM as to which system is the best fit for them.

Dungeon & Dragons Through the Versions - Part 19

Well, we finally made it to the end. This should be the 2nd to last post on "Dungeons & Dragons Through the Versions." This time, though, I was granted a reprieve and allowed to be a PLAYER (something that has not happened in almost 15 years).

We sat down to make 5th edition D&D characters a few weeks ago. We knew nothing of the adventure we would be running, only that we could only select choices from the Player's Handbook. This was fine, since the goal of this mission is to see how the base rules function without any bells or whistles. I actually jumped the gun (since I own the books) and made my character ahead of time. The others took to the internet for the rules and worked out their characters during the first session (as we have come to do through this process). In the end, the party was a mixed bag:

• Grumbold, male dwarf fighter 1
• Evek, male half-elf sorcerer 1
• Elander, female dwarf cleric 1
• Torinn, male dragonborn (bronze) fighter 1
• Varnash, male dragonborn (copper) paladin 1

No rogue in this mix (not a great idea, but not planned). I went with Protection for my Martial type, the other fighter went for Great Weapon type, and the paladin went with protection also. The cleric took the doman of Life and the sorcerer went with Dragon sorcery. It took a long while to explain the concept of "proficiency" to people who come from a Weapon/Non-weapon Proficiency system. We had to tell them that Proficiency replaces the numbers on the charts for the stuff we used to be good at. The different saving throws also threw them for a loop. However, being back to the basic classes was heartening!

The next week we began the scenario, as we were pulled into....oh no! RAVENLOFT! Eeek!

Yes, Count Strahd von Zarovich had struck again, although this time I think it wasn't his fault. No, this time we found ourselves on the foggy streets of Barovia, deserted except for a pair of children in the middle of the street. We approached and learned that they were terrified of something in the basement. They were dodgy on where their parents were, and since there was no one else in this ghost town, we figured that we would enter the house and find out what was going on.

The lower levels of the place were immaculate but creepy. The place obviously belonged to some wealthy people. It was also completely empty - like totally devoid of anything alive. We spent the entire session exploring one empty room after another, even those in the upstairs. We ended just before going up to the 3rd floor.

The next session we encountered a suit of armor that tried to kill my dwarf fighter! We managed to defeat it but still could not find anything alive in the place. I was again attacked by a spectre defending a stillborn baby in a crib and nearly slain were it not for the quick actions of the party cleric. Another level up we found some bedrooms where the children were found again after they disappeared on us. We were starting to piece together the mystery of the place. By the end of this session we magically made 2nd level!

The next session had us finally locate a means of getting to the basement - from the attic no less! A secret spiral stair led down through the house to a deep cellar crypt. Here were crypts for the family; the mother and father were tucked away in their crypts (we did not disturb these), but the children (who we previously learned died in their rooms upstairs and were now ghosts inhabiting the house) were never buried. Also, the stillborn baby brother was never interred here although there was a crypt. We decided then and there to bury the bones of the children in their crypts (after we learned that the girl had possessed our cleric!). Once that was done we explored some more, until my dwarf fighter walked into a ghoul ambush! I got clobbered but not paralyzed, and retreated to let the others handle the undead. Saving throws in the game seem overused, but I suppose they had to change some of the mechanics. We walked around a bit and explored the basement, looking for the chanting that we could not find. I did manage to locate a spiked pit... did I mention we had no rogue in the group?

On the final session we located a stairway leading down to a chamber housing 13 strange relics with side passages leading to a bunch of holding cells for prisoners and a submerged chamber blocked by a heavy portcullis. We managed to lift the portcullis and enter the submerged chamber, only to be confronted with floating apparitions in the chamber (which appeared after I jumped onto the central dais). This set in motion the shambling mound in the cave-like alcove across the way! While it was forming up out of the mass of rotting vegetation on the floor, everyone took up defensive positions while Torinn went to confront it! Elander and Evek threw several spells at it but most were ineffective or of reduced effectiveness. Weapons seems to work well enough, although we suspect that they weren't doing full damage. Torinn was hitting it for all he was worth, as was Varnash and later myself (hey, it takes a long time to enter melee as a dwarf when you're across a chamber). Then Varnash took a critical hit after being wounded....and died instantly! He was brought down to his negative hp value by the crit and died there on the spot, no save possible! Ouch! We managed to finish off the shambling mound after a few more rounds, but it was a tough battle. After that we tried to leave the house, but the house wouldn't let us leave! It bricked up its windows and tried to kill us with poisonous smoke from the chimneys and pendulum blades at the doors. It took some doing, but we located a shortcut to the main floor lounge and then Torinn smashed through one wall with his maul (releasing a horde of rats which were easily overcome). Evek was poisoned by the smoke but he managed to fight through the pain and leapt through the blades guarding the exit. The rest of us followed, making saves to avoid being poisoned, Torinn hauling Varnash's body. I was the last out of the house, leaping mightily through the blades. Once outside, the fog lifted and the children could be seen waving from the upstairs windows. We had managed to survive a stint in Ravenloft!

By the end of the session we all made 3rd level, except Varnish who was deader than a door nail. The experience seemed...unfulfilling. Our DM was great, the players seemed to have a good time, but the game lacked a certain quality that I've come to expect in my D&D games. Maybe I've just been a DM too long. I try to solve problems from the DM perspective. I tried to role-play as much as possible, but since the scenario was atypical of normal D&D dungeons, I felt like my character's backstory and all those other role-playing elements that seemed so important during character creation were just glossed over. Now, I know that this was a one-shot, but it just seemed like all that time was wasted during character creation.

* * * * *

OK. So, we have now concluded the run of all the versions of D&D (plus Pathfinder), and it seems that, like the Star Trek films, there is a pattern of like and dislike. I found 5th edition to be better than 4th edition. But it seems that the characters are still way overpowered compared to the monsters. What I did not like about the scenario (which is a D&D module) is the monster selection for a 1st-3rd level group. I mean, come on....a SPECTRE?? a SHAMBLING MOUND?? These were high-level creatures only meant to oppose those characters of upper levels (8th+) in earlier editions. I was a bit shocked to encounter them at 2nd level. I believe that the experience point advancement is too fast as well. After about 2 encounters we all leveled up. If that occurred in original D&D, Gygax would never have laughed at the 40th level characters taking on gods! I dislike the firm Forgotten Realms direction they took the game (again, make it generic for core rules). I like the variations permitted to the characters, but I also found that most players would necessarily gravitate towards an "optimal build" (like they do in all those MMORPGs). I would give 5th edition a solid 3 out of 5 stars. It seems to be very coherent in theory and after first looks, but implementation seemed a bit off to me. There were so many things in the game that seemed like a gloss-over (mainly because players would either ignore the rules anyway, or they didn't fit the play style).

I wanted to play a standard race (dwarf) and a standard class (fighter) because a good game allows those to shine, without being overshadowed by the sub-classes or add-ons. It seemed that our fighters did just as well if not better than the paladin. The paladin could not match the cleric's healing either. but what he did do well no one else in the party could do. The sorcerer seemed to have too many spells, but again this is coming from my previous expectations. I'm sure that if I was playing a spellcaster over 5 sessions in the same adventure, I would not want to run out of spells! We only rested once during those 5 sessions, but it seemed like we were able to complete the adventure rather fast. Granted, 5 sessions to go from 1st to 3rd may seem slow to some people, but we like to take our time, we were learning a new system, and we tend to think before acting. The system seemed to reward some of what we did, but penalized us for taking our time. Either that or our DM was trying to shuffle us along to complete the adventure due to some unknown time-frame restriction. Perhaps if I played a rogue or wizard I would have had a different opinion of the system. It is definitely something that I would try again, perhaps even run.

It dismays me that the only adventures I have access to buy are for levels 1-20. Are the lower levels so fast that it isn't worth writing a full adventure for them? It also seems strange (still) to not stop and train. But this version, like 2nd edition and on, seems more story driven and glosses over some details (like training) that were inherent in the earlier game.

Next time, I'll try and go through all our experiences and see where my players stand and where we're going with my original campaign. The reason we did this experiment for the past year or more is to see which version of the game best matches our concept of fun and excitement. Granted, this is tainted somewhat by the learning curve inherent in trying a new game, but the basic premise of the game changed little (except during 4th). Ideally, I wanted to see what parts we could use to cobble together our own form of D&D. So far, though, 1st edition still seems to be the popular choice.